Your questions about Madison police response to protesters

I asked on Facebook “The Madison Public Safety Review Committee will be reviewing police protest policies.  What would you ask or change?”  Here’s the responses.There were 142 comments from my post on June 11th.  Today at 2:00 a committee will begin to look at the policies.  (I will try again to livestream, and see if I do better than yesterday’s budget meeting) I decided to categorize and organize the comments in preparation of today’s meeting and here are the results.  I’m sure I didn’t do a perfect job categorizing them, but I got close.  What did they miss in the comments, feel free to add a comment in the comment sections (they require a real name/email and approval to prevent spam which can sometimes be slow because I am doing other things)

USE OF CHEMICAL AND MILITARY STYLE WEAPONS/TOOLS

• tear gas is banned in warfare against enemies by the Geneva protocol of 1925 along with asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and there should be no exception allowing law enforcement to use riot control agents for “domestic riot control purposes.”
• Eliminate stocks of and use of tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, armored vehicles immediately.
• Militarized weapons should be re-evaluated.
• ban rubber bullets…even if a rubber bullet doesn’t penetrate the skin, it can still cause bruising of the lungs or heart, as well as “possibly fatal injuries such as bleeding, pneumothorax (a collapsed lung) or heart attacks,” they will likely refuse the ban, but make them accountable when used against peaceful protesters as lethal force

• • Ban their use as some aim them at faces/heads. No money for these.
• Make them stop aiming at people’s heads with whatever they’re firing.
• No tear gas. No rubber bullets. Treat everyone, including those who may be criminals,like your mother. Change your mindset. It is not a war. These are your loved ones and neighbors, even if they are breaking the law.
• Get rid of their military riot control vehicle.
• Abolition of, and failing that, the demilitarization, retraining, and reduction of cops. Less cops pls. No APCs, no horses, no rifles, tear gas, rubber bullets, pepper spray. No use of nor coordination with the National Guard nor any American troops.
• Demilitarized vehicles. Foot patrol, bicycle patrol (in pairs), compact cars as we saw for a while in the ’70’s.
• In the short term Id say to demand disarming for riot control no less lethals, ‘rubber’ bullets, bean bag guns, tear gas, pepper spray mace tasers clubs at the very very least.
• No curfew and no military gear.
• Take away all of their weapons, guns, tasers, tear gas, horses, rubber bullets. Force them to negotiate and discuss rather than use violence.
• Demilitarize police.
• Require situation by situation authorization for “non-lethal” weapons like flash-bangs, pepper spray, or tear gas.
• MPD policy on chemical agents has no actual content, and thus provides no accountability.
• Policy should clearly and definitively prohibit use of OC, CS, and impact munitions in any protest situation. Period. I think it needs to be city ordinance – not just police policy.
• Police are not needed at these events. But, you can follow Seattle, which recently banned the use of tear gas, rubber bullets and other “less lethal” weapons. It is clear the police cannot be trusted with these.

INJURIES TO CIVILIANS

• I would ask the police to kindly stop suffocating people and stop ripping left arms out of their sockets for no reason – They like to rip limbs off, or try to, my left arm is permanently crippled because It was ripped out the socket, I was rushed to the hospitol in hand cuffs and was released
  • yes, they tore my daughter’s rotator cuff.
• I’d ask them to leave my kid TF alone! She has been arrested while in the cross walk at a green light, had her shoulder cuff torn and she was pepper sprayed at close range. ALL while peacefully protesting. I’m angry. MPD NEEDS TO DO BETTER
• Go slow. Assume it will take more time than you think. It’s not a blitzkrieg. Increased speed correlates to more violence and property damage. The goal isn’t how fast you accomplish the goal, but how humanely it was done–no injuries, including police. Two wrongs don’t make a right. When stopping or apprehending criminal activity, be humane and don’t violate their civil rights.
• Ban chokeholds, strangleholds, deadweight on handcuffed people.
• Quit choking people, no more of the heavy armored cops dogpiling kids.
• One thing would be for police officers to keep in mind that letting a suspect or someone you just want to stop and question get away is better than killing or maiming someone who is not even proven guilty. Force should be used only when someone is in the process of hurting another (ie. Mugging, murder) or is already proven guilty (in court, not just accused). A choke hold for someone who passed a counterfeit bill isnt a fitting reaction and he was only suspected, not convicted.

COMMUNICATION AND DE-ESCALATION

• That there presence be unobtrusive. That they serve and PROTECT.
• Once they join in a faceless wall and start advancing, they no longer communicate (except for the inhuman brutality), so it’s not even clear what they want the protesters to do, where to go.
• First attempts to disburse protesters, rioters, and looters must be done peacefully and without force by regular officers (no riot gear or weapons engaged). This means more than a couple of PA announcements.
• If requests or commands are given to protesters, don’t assume they heard you before using force.
• Less spending and training with riot gear, more funding for training in de-escalation, negotiation, and conflict resolution. Having mental health officers is a good start, but there should be some social work and mental health understanding for all officers.
• Police first priority should be to serve and protect. Deescalation not confrontation should be the order of the day. Every day.
• require deescalation and more at https://8cantwait.org/
• De-esclation techniques and policies.
• Come with the mindset “WE ARE HERE TO PROTECT THE CIVIL LIBERTIES OF PROTESTORS. We will do everything possible to KEEP THEM FROM HARM.” TAKE A KNEE.
• Police should not be able to engage or break up any protest unless they see (and this should be on tape) a violent felony being committed.

IMMUNITY/PENALTIES/ACCOUNTABILITY

• If they have qualified immunity, remove it. If their misdeeds are covered by the dept’s insurance, transfer it to individual officers’ liability insurance.
• Fire Matt Kenny.
• Fines for cops who needlessly target Black, Indigenous and people of color…similar to the fines suggested in other cities for racists’ 911 calls for living while black.
• Mandatory bodycam operating on anyone that uses force or is in riot gear. Severe penalties for anyone not complying. Enhanced penalties if the use of force causes property damage or injury and body cam was not operating.
• Civil suits and settlements against the police are paid by the department, without reimbursement from the City.
• Officers that kill unarmed citizens are immediately fired.
• [Police] should carry their own insurance to pay out damages.
• They give “hero” medals to their cops after they kill an unarmed citizen. IIRC, Matt Kenney has two.
• Fire Matt Kenney now.
• They should follow the same rules as everyone else, including getting liability insurance.
• Lawsuits due to police’s misconduct or abuse should come from their retirement funds…. Not Tax payers $….
• Fire Matt Kinney immediately!
• Set up an independent community panel to review excessive use of force. Fire police that use excessive force, e.g. Matt Kinney.
• Every community in Wisconsin, whatever its size, needs a police accountability commission. This should be a democratic mass movement-type organization which has not just the respect of, but a seat on, City Government. These should be governed by a general assembly of some sort and should each have an Education Committee which should study history, sociology, psychology, criminology, etc. and make its policy based on these disciplines. A real “learning organization” which could in turn make the city government into a “learning organization.”
• officers who witness misbehavior by fellow officers be required to report it. AND that retribution for breaking “the code of silence” be forbidden, too.
• Policy in itself appears pretty useless – since MPD flagrantly violated their own use of force policies during the May 30 – June 1 protests (e.g. policies on OC spray and impact munitions). And there’s been no accountability since. Pretty policies aren’t worth the paper they’re written on if MPD officers just ignore the policies and aren’t held to account.

TRANSPARENCY

• Post publicly citizen complaints with details of officers’ info.

MUTUAL AID/NON-MPD OFFICER INVOLVEMENT PLUS STAFFING

• mutual aid procedure needs to be reevaluated.
• Only nonviolent cops should be able to work protests. The first time a cop uses excessive force anywhere, they should face consequences and be limited what they can do. If it happens again they should be fired. … Maybe they get a bonus if they work a protest and there are no arrests or militaristic responses.
  • I agree with most of that but, why give them a bonus just for doing their job right?
• And complete moratorium on using mercs for anything, and to create rules specific to ban mercs

USE OF FORCE

• What precisely are their rules governing the use of force in protest circumstances?

IDENTIFICATION AND RIOT GEAR

• The need for more identification, badge, badge numbers and names visible, body cams running, no interaction.
• no officers in riot gear or weapons engaged until there is evidence of active rioting or looting.
• Name & badge number can’t be covered.
• Demilitarized uniforms. You get what you invite as we have seen when officers present in full battle gear. Chief Couper did this to remarkable effect.
• riot gear invites the rioting. I’ve seen it work differently when David Couper came to Madison in the early 70’s and literally brought an end to the street wars that were regularly occurring over several years. You get what you invite, so it is better to invite peaceful action. It is much easier to lob something at an officer in riot gear than one in ordinary uniform. And tear gas, etc., does nothing but escalate the conflict.
• Badge numbers should be printed on their uniforms in font the same size as it is on car license plates. Reduce anonymity and remind everyone they are responsible for their conduct
• during any kind of mass protest or disturbance require police to wear vests with their badge #s in very large font on both sides in contrasting colors or shades (blue on orange).

TRAINING

• No outside trainings, none of that killology bullshit.
• Mental health training
• Bystander intervention training for police who see fellow police doing something illegal, like choking residents
• Be aware of what medical conditions make people act differently-like diabetic reactions, dementia/delirium, mental illness, etc-don’t use lethal force!
• police do not have enough training. As a Critical Care Nurse and dealing with ER patients who were often very threatening and combative (usually drug induced) , we were never forced to use deadly weapons. Restraints, yes. Then something to calm them. But drugs are not available to police other than Narcan. So restrain and get them to nearest E.R. Other than someone being combative, police need to have the skills to talk a lesser combative person down i.e. knowledge of psychology.
• Reduce police armaments: killings of innocents happen when officers assume the other is armed like an officer; help officers know the real risks of each imminent confrontation.

TRANSPARENCY

• More transparency. Chief must stop lying to the public.
• mandated 100% use of body cams. No turning it off when they want to commit a felony in Madison

OTHER

• David Couper Read what I have to say at improvingpolice.blog
• more at https://8cantwait.org/
• Look at abolition!! https://www.8toabolition.com/ I’m looking into how far we can go given our state statutes and would be nice if the idea is considered more since its what a lot of protesters were demanding…
• I want police to have to live where they work. If they’re not a part if the community, then we have failed before we have begun.
• Go back to 2-officer patrols. Fewer vehicles needed, but more importantly, no one would be showing up to a call alone and tempted to act before backup arrives. The solo officer deployment has not worked well in the case of several of our near east side fatalities. (The policy says to have a 3-cop minimum on most calls.)
• drop cop attitude and menacing appearance in addition to disarming.
• No more pay to protest.
• Cease use of City fleet vehicles, including Metro transit buses, for transport of law enforcement or military personnel during declared public emergencies – except for preparation/recovery efforts due to humanitarian crises or other natural disasters.
• Body worn cameras for the entire department.
• Get police out of schools.
• Fund community mental health, addiction/recovery treatment, and housing programs so police are not the ones dealing with homelessness, mental illness, addiction, and family issues.
• Another concern in general but got heightened during protests was the high level of surveillance.
• Hire Firemen for protest protection. Use police to protect the fire hoses that they use to water down the protestors.
• Police should not show up at protests.
• Clarify and restrict the meaning of “resisting arrest.”
• Tell them to stay home. We don’t need escorts, or “protection” to exercise free speech.