This was probably some of the most revealing and interesting part of the evening . . . so, sorry to save it til last . . . And thanks to everyone who kept reminding me to get it done. I’m starting to catch up.
Karl van Lith (the City’s professional facilitator) starts the Q & A – He says Maniaci will call out the questions and Verveer will have the microphone. van Lith will take notes and record the issues. Quite a few people get up to leave at this point.
The first person to speak is a former resident of Madison bus says she expects to return in a few years. Asks the impact of development for economic development and tourism.
Dunn says that Economics Research Associates has done studies – he says it is “very significant”. 1,000 jobs during construction and 500 permanent jobs. [I find this claim curious. And I’m curious to see some details about these jobs. On the construction side, will they use a local company, or will the money just leave town? And on the 500 on-going jobs, are these all new jobs? Or how many of them already exist? And is that jobs based on some multiplier effect? Or are these jobs part time jobs, how many FTEs is it?] Dunn says there is a significant fiscal impact as measured by ERA, he describes as a “top urban economist”. He says it will contribute $20M to the economy on an annual basis. $50M spending on an annual basis. [I’d like to see something to back up those numbers? I wonder if they will share them with the public?] He says he will get information on tourism very soon. He says this project will support us as a destination city and support Monona Terrace. He says it will bring in a new class of tourists to this city that we don’t see now. No leisure tourism at the moment. [I’d also like to see numbers to back up that statement.]
Someone asked a question about handicap accessibility and I missed the answer.
The next person with a question went home.
Dick Baker from Kennedy Manor asks about the pier. He asks what the plan is for waterfront development. He points to the picture, he asks if they are replacing the pier that is there and have they worked with the DNR to bring back the historic pier.
Dunn says they spent some time on it, they will focus on that later. [Interesting that they keep blowing the DNR issues off, as they seem to be pretty critical. In fact, at the UDC meeting, at least on commissioner said they couldn’t get past initial approval until these issues were addressed.]
Fred Mohs asks about stair case? Will they move the wall of the existing garage? He says it is a terraced stair with access into the building.
Dunn says the 70s edition built into the building and they will pull it away one full structural bay.
Dave Noki (?) – Old Sauk Road – Question for Brad Murphy about small focus group making decisions, how will he ensure the entire City of Madison gets a say in the project.
Murphy says this meeting is a good start. The formal review process is for the public to give input. Every public meeting before boards and commissions and council allow 3 minutes or 5 minutes to speak. Formal public hearings are properly noticed and you can speak then. Could be additional meetings beyond this one, many groups that are interested, neighborhood association, business groups and hearing from all of them. This is a good meeting to continue this discussion and there could more meetings.
Michael Bridgeman – Asks about neighborhood context and the statement that the neighborhood is in decline, asks what blight is and why does it matter? He disagrees about the characterization.
Murphy says blight summary was from city study for preparation to expand the TIF district. He says the definition of blight is in state statute. He says it is a broad definition.
Maniaci says the definition it is in the back. [Those handouts were not there when I got there.]
Murphy gave example of blight that include underutilized land and parking lots.
Dunn says he just used info provided to them. [Well, he included it for a reason, what was it? I think he’s tryind to make the neighborhood seem worse than it is and using the word “blight” to scare people when he knows full well that just about anything can be considered blighted simply because there is a dead bird on the property or a sidewalk is cracked.]
Judy Karofsky, downtown resident, asks about the criteria for appeals process from Landmarks.
Cnare says it is the same criteria for the Mansion Hill guidelines in the landmarks.
Karofsky asks if it can get appealed to the circuit court?
I think the answer was yes.[Do you sense some foreshadowing and perhaps deja vu both at the same time?]
? Adamany asks how many exceptions requested?
Murphy says specific approvals required – summarized them in the materials. Project of this size does require multiple approvals, this one might have a few more – not uncommon for property to need many approvals.
She asks about the pier and where we are with DNR?
Dunn says the focus is on process with the city – as get further along, they will work with the DNR. [Now they seem to be outright dodging that question.]
James Tye asks about the plaza regarding the TIF money and where cars will go and how they will enter the building?
Murphy says to look at economic development website to find out info about TIF. There is a summary in the back of the room.
Dunn talks about the buses on terrace.
Dunn talks about the public space and the right fought for and secured in the 70s and he would be interested in knowing how many people spent time on top of the building. He says the center portion of the building is mechanicals and it never was or will be accessible. He says the rooftop has no quality public space – that the city fought for. Also has a stair down the east side of the building which he calls “trecaherous” and he says no one uses it.
Dunn then talks again about the busses and the urban garden. He says it should have a well developed garden with public gathering spaces and green space. He says public will be able to go to the edge of the terrace and view the panoramic view. He says they will schedule events in the public space at times. He says that they thought about bringing the drive up space to the east of the building.
I think Tye asked about the vehicle space and the dock and putting the drop off to the south of the building.
Dunn says they are continuing to work on space at UDC. Want to tighten it up as it relates to vehicular access. 100% of traffic came in at a bad spot. He points out the service dock is on the east side of the building right off Wisconsin Avenue. He says that buses drop off at the front door and park on Wis Ave area – he says they will stage busses remotely. [Originally they said they could pull the buses under the building.]
Marilyn ? says many elements are positive, she likes the handicap accessibility and preservation and asks why they are building another tower? She just moved back to the area from the east coast where sunlight and views are obliterated by tower after tower. She says that they should consider the plan offered in the paper. She’d like to see the building terraced as it approaches the lake. She said she knows upward is cheaper, could have a more acceptable estate like approach and that people are tired of the tower. [Applause.]
Dunn says he’d like to be able to satisfy every issue, but this is a challenging project. He says they looked at variety of design ideas – including building into the hillside on National Guardian Life project. He says going high is not less expensive, that is not the dominant factor. He said he pulled away from waterfront and they need a certain program to be economically feasibile. Some people don’t want to hear about the economic realities. [I think people are concerned about the economic realities, but they have no information to help us understand it.] He says they have gotten to the point where they have a taller building. He says the floor area ration is 8 or 10 in the neighbohood and this project is 4 due to the balancing of the open space vs. height – doesn’t exist elsewhere in the downtown.
Tom Farley asks about design principles and has a question for steering committee – good statistics and research done by the developer and all he heard about why they project was bad was that it was not good for convention hotel plans. He asks what research has been done to support not doing this plan. He says there has been so many visioning plans by the Chamber of Commerce, the Greater Madison Convention and Visitors Bureau and Downtown Madison Inc. and he doesn’t see how any arguments against it are meeting the vision of these plans.
Maniaci says that she wants staff to answer the question.
Zellers, from the steering committee answers the question. She says there are 5 historic districts in Madison, plus the downtown historic plan and their vision is to support and compliment the historic neighborhood. Once historic neighborhoods are gone they are gone forever and we lose a significant part of our heritage. Talks about person who came to visit from the national historic trust, and how he complimented us on the beauty of our city, but we have lost alot in terms of historic buildings and character. He warned us to be careful going forward – this is one of only 5 historic districts.
Maniaci now wants to limit answers to one minute. [Seems odd that Dunn got to talk however much he wanted, but when the neigbhorhood got asked a question first she tried to not let them answer and then the time got limited.]
Pete Ostlind says he is concerned about the mass and height in the historic district and the fact that there is no setback along Wisconsin Avenue. He says there are good aspects too. Motor turnaround is not like Olin terrace.
Maniaci interrupts and tells him to ask a question.
Ostlind says that a large part of public right of way is used for a private purposes. He says those private uses are included in the open space percentages.
Dunn says he doesn’t know what the question is – today turnaround is in the right of way and they are replicating that at a higher level and yes it is included in the open space calculation. [Again with the contempt for the neighborhood.]
Erik Minton says this is the most inspiring thing he’s ever seen, doesn’t think Tom’s question was answered. If not this then what. He says he’s inspired and dreaming. His question is for Capital Neighborhoods and that he has heard the same broken record of obstruction. He says he wants and answer. [Applause.]
Adam Plotkin, president of CNI says the don’t tell developers what they should do with their land, says there are many projects that they have supported and worked successfully with. He mentions the Hyatt Hotel and Scott Lewis project. [Again there is applause, and Maniaci interrupts the clapping. Tries to shout them down.]
Devitt talks about the Quisling Clinic and how they worked to have a project fit with the neighborhood. They just want this to fit with the neighborhood.
Ryan Olbach (?), doesn’t live in the neighborhood. Compliments Hammes company, he talkes some more than says that his question has been answered. [Notice, he didn’t get interrupted and told to answer a question.]
Joe Lusson lives on East Gorham in the 4th Lake Ridge Historic District. He owns a home there and that the historic district gives him predictability. To answer Tom’s question he says there are only 5 historic districts and Mansion Hill is one of most important. The scale of neighborhood is important – why couldn’t they do a version of what they are proposing and instead of 17 stories, limit to 5 stories above height limit. He says it might reduce the TIF request and unify the city/neighborhood instead of dividing it.
Hammes says he looked at it, and his first part of the answer is that the program with the height of the building is 228 rooms, economic feasibility hinges on that. He says there is an 11 story building today, increasing the capacity allows them to provide the public spaces and take on the maintenance cost and responsibility into the future. If they take away that much program then it has to be altered – at that level of rooms the project is not feasible.
Rosemary Lee asks how will tif benefit the neighborhood and what does UW think of this?
Dunn says the UW support it. [The rooms seem too expensive to fit within their guidelines.] Dunn says that for many years this was the UW’s hotel and part of the campus. He says as Madison starts to become a world class city we need to compete and havae a great destination. If you had 48 hours to show someone the best of Madison, the lakes, waterfront, historic district, hotel on par with great hotels, doorsteps of the campus, how would you sell someone to move here, what is the best we can do today – does that compliment this?
James Skretny asks about the PUD zoning text and how to use this project as a precedent. As a property owner in a historic district, how does that protect him? 2nd question for designer is the publicly accessible space, where are the chairs going to be and how many will there be.
Brad says that zoning text would have no effect on other properties, each PUD stands on its own. We have many PUDs in the downtown, over 500, many fewer in historic districts.
Architect says that the design is early and that great open space comes with seating. You need seating where you can watch people, along the edging they are implying that there will be seating – doesn’t know how much – 50 people sitting, 100 people sitting? No definite answer.
Scott Vaughn says he represents 19 union locals – construction economy has been down – best figure for job creation during construction phase – nearly 1000 jobs for 2 year period . . . I don’t think he asks a question.
Robert Hauser(?) – who will manage the hotel and how will we know if more responsible to keep up with promises. What are the future implications for the development of the corridor on Wis Ave? What about other views? Who will this help book conventions at the terrace?
Murphys says that the impact on Wisconsin Avenue is a good question as they are still in the middle of doing the downtown plan.
Dunn says that they will manage the building.[The website says that this group will be managing the building. Here’s the story.]
Dunn says in response to the other views that they tried to be brief tonight and that they have created a video.
Someone asked about the large amount of tif for large amount of public space. The persons says they lived in the neighborhood for 12 years and asks who is going to use that access. Monona Terrace is beautiful and has parking – who will use this space besides the students.
Dunn says he has seen the most amount of support for the public space.
The person says the stair can be used and there is a reason we need to have access to water front.
A persons says he lives at quisling terrace. He’s a MATC graduate and went to culinary school and worked at Edgewater. He’s now an ambassador for downtown. His questions is that with everything that has gone on, what right do we have to deny a project after we destroyed so many other projects.
I’m not sure that was a question and at this point, there are about 100 people left and they had to end because they had to be out by 10:00.
[I hope I got this all right, the notes are old and I should have done it right away . . . ]
