No editing . . . please be forgiving! 🙂 Yikes, two meetings in a row, I’d like to say I’m back . . . but don’t want to commit to it yet, but it looks promising! 🙂 I’d only consider it “back” if I go back and get the capital budget blogging done . .. but I’d settle for getting the rest of the budget season in.
Getting Started
Roll Call: McKinney absent (excused)
Move suspension of rules to take things out of order on the agenda and introduce things at the end of the agenda. Passes without discussion as per usual.
Honoring Resolutions
1. Indigenous People’s Day – they table it til more people get here.
2. Miss Viva Mexico – She thanks them.
3. National Breast Cancer Awareness Month/Day etc. Sheri Carter is very emotional reading this and apologizes because she lost her best friend to breast cancer. Several women come forward to accept the proclamation
4. & 5. Petitions & Communications – they are received
Early Public Comment
7. Susan Schmitz from Downtown Madison Inc speaks on the Edgewater and supports the plan of operation just like they supported the Edgewater development. The public wants more access to the lakes, the Edgewater contributes to that objective in the comprehensive plan. She says in her 19 years at DMI she has learned that we need to activate public spaces. She says Lisa Link Park was renovated, but it wasn’t until the BID activated that it was used. She says the people compalining about the noise are just the same people who were against the Edgewater and the council shouldn’t listen to them, please support the proposal as is from the Edgewater.
7. Gene Devitt says that he welcomes the Edgewater and wants people to use the lakefront, but this is about noise. There used to be whorehouses on King St in the 70’s but that has changed, downtown is residential now, things have changed. He says that it is the bands, people can’t sleep, they can’t have dinner parties without disturbing it without loud noise. He wants them to accept a compromise as proposed by Alder Ledell. There are homes within 20 feet of the property. People have restored these homes. He says 95db is the same as a circular saw. He wants to accommodate the Edgewater and not disturb the neighbors. Edgewater is an asset to the neighborhood, but please respect the neighborhood the way you would in your neighborhood. He says that the TIF money for the governor’s mansion – he’d like to talk to that, meetings shouldn’t go so long into the night and get better food in your vending machines.
Woman asks about speaking, Mayor asks if she registered to speak early (green form) or if she registered on the other forms. He says they will take other early registrations.
TAKE ITEM OFF THE TABLE
They take the item off the table and do the Indigenous People’s Day resolution. They thank them for the resolution. Rebecca Kemble talks about being in jail last year during Indigenous People’s Day and reflecting about living on stolen land and how much of city government (taxes, land) is based on our land. This is important and we need to do more. We need to work towards reparations with acknowledgement as a start.
MORE EARLY COMMENT
Lani Schuester has lived downtown 20 years, 14 years by Edgewater, her apartment is on the other side of Kennedy Manor, not facing Edgewater. She has to shut windows and can’t take naps or go to bed at 9pm. She says that she has been told to close windows and put on air conditioning but she can’t afford that and it makes her sick. She says that she has been told to put music on in her home, but that doesn’t create the quiet to read a book or have friends over. She says there were 50 events in June, July and August and during the events she can still hear the music if the has the windows closed, fans on and music on. She says that people can come to the Edgewater and go home ot quiet but whene they come to her neighborhood she has to leave her home she pays rent for. She wants them to support Alder Ledell’s proposal and she sent them an email and will stop there.
CONSENT AGENDA
It’s this . . . https://www.forwardlookout.com/2017/10/what-will-the-council-talk-about-tonight-56/25844
Alder Carter is willing to take 68 (public art) off the exclusion list. It stays on the consent agenda.
Alder Kemble recuses herself on 71.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
6 – Hearing opened (Willy St. Coop liquor license) – re-referred back to ALRC
8 – 20 are taken up next, they do 8, 9 & all the Kwik Trip licenses together in one motion 10 – 20. 8 – 20 passes to grant
21 – 24 have registrations in support, people available to answer questions, all pass as noted on the agenda
25 – Monroe St. assessment adopted under suspension
26 – Capital Budget – no registrations, hearing is recessed and its referred
27 – Zoning 2114 Winnebago – adopt with conditions – 10 in support, no one speaks, motion adopted
Sarah Esckrich speaks on 25 and thanks the council and staff to make this happen over the past two years. She urges people to support the businesses on Monroe St.
Marsha Rummel speaks to the Co-housing project and notes that this was one of the few projects that went to plan commission and had no one in opposition.
Alder Kemble recuses herself from number 27.
EXACT SCIENCES
67. Legislative File No. 48934 – Authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to execute a development agreement to fund a $2,500,000 Tax Incremental Finance Loan to assist in the renovation and development of office, laboratory, and warehouse space for Exact Sciences Corporation in the Project Plan and Boundary Amendment area of TID #46 (Research Park). (Report of Finance Committee- Ald. Rebecca Kemble, District 18)
One registrant supporting and available to answer questions. Alder Kemble makes and amendment to add the following language
The TIF Loan shall be disbursed in two payments. The first payment of One Million Eight Hundred Twelve Thousand Dollars ($1,812,000) (the “First Payment”) shall be disbursed at or following closing of the TIF Loan upon verification that the Employer has incurred TIF eligible expenses in the amount of the First Payment. The second payment of Six Hundred Eighty Eight Thousand Dollars ($688,000) shall be disbursed to Employer on the date of occupancy of the Project by the Employer and verification that Employer has at least one hundred twenty-five (125) FTE Jobs in the Laboratory Component on the Property.
She says that this is a TIF loan that had multiple exceptions and waivers being asked, including the one that she has amended. Including incurring interest on the $2.5M for taxpayers to pay before the TIF district was approved. SHe says there would be no documentation to back it up. She notes the Eau Claire case that requires reasonable evidence to back up the TIF loan decision and she is making this TIF loan consistent with the other two TIF loans they have done.
Mayor Paul Soglin thanks Alder Kemble for contacting city staff and that led to resolution and this has been resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.
Mark Clear says this is the first he is seeing it and he’s not sure what it means and he’s miffed as one of the co-sponsors of the resolution.
Mayor ask Matt Mikolajewski to speak to the question. Matt says that this mirrors the other loans that they have done and that the first money is given after they have incurred costs and the second when they occupy.
Clear says “I hate surprises on large projects in his district”.
Mayor says “I understand”
Kemble says she’d like to apologize and . . . I’m just . . . I’m not going to say any more.
(I suspect what she is thinking is that Mark Clear stands to make money off this deal as a stockholder which he disclosed at the finance committee . . . someone should file and ethics complaint.)
EDGEWATER
Public Testimony
Harvey ? has lived there for 14 years, he hasn’t heard the noise, he hears faint noise and its over by 9 at night, they still hear music after 10 pm but it comes from the Union and it stops at 11. He has been to the Edgewater for many events, its well used and they just ordered a $45,000 shelter to shield the noise and send the noise north over the lake. He approves of the ALRC recommendation and the Edgewater proposal. They have wonderful free events, including waterskiing on 4th of July, it was so busy he couldn’t back his boat out. He sees lots of people pull into the boat slips and go to the farmers market and out to eat, they even have people who tie up and untie the boats. THey live a half block to the east and they don’t hear any noise and neither do their neighbors.
Marsha Cannon – for 28 years she has lived in Tenney Lapham and they hear unwanted noise form Central Park, Breese Stevens and Memorial Union – this is a public health issue that affects (she listed a bunch of things I missed). She also talks about the decibel levels and how loud events can lead ot hearing loss. She says it is especially bad for children. SHe opposes this unless the maximum sound limit is reduced from 75 db to 65 db. She says there were 91 events and she says they should not get more than 35 amplified events from now until June. She says noise is a public health issue like smoking. THe Mansion Hill neighbors should be protected.
Joanna Burish – she is a Madisonian, she represents we the people not me the people. She says the public wanted this public space and the Edgewater went above and beyond. An agreement was made and not they are changing the details. She says this is not reasonable and fair. Using Ledell’s recommendation is not fair, reasonable or practical. The lower levels are not reasonable. She says they are setting a precedent and if they lower the sound levels people will be lined up around the block to get other noise levels reduced. She says that the people against this are the same people who were against the Edgewater. She says that whatever has been done to reduce the noise hasn’t been enough.
Carol Poure? – She lives on the top floor of the Kennedy Manor, she says that the fraternities are good neighbors, but not the Edgewater, the Edgewatr is the worst neighbor ever, for several hours several nights there are amplified bands playing that are intrusive. She can’t open her windows to block out the noise. The constant racket is so disturbing she can’t have conversations or watch tv, rest, read, etc. The noise permeates the street level at odds with the historic neighborhood. She doesn’t call the police because they can’t do anything, so the number of calls don’t reflect the number of complaints. She says they have had two neighborhood meetings and the Edgewater says that they have taken steps but she hasn’t noted any changes. She used to enjoy going to the Edgewater in the past. This is the first time she was against the Edgewater and the issue for her is the noise, it is dragging down the quality of life. It has been a great relief to have the noise stop. This has been disturbing the peace in the neighborhood. The ALRC recommended lax conditions that don’t go far enough and she hopes they support Alder Zellers motion. Public access doesn’t imply noise or intolerable noise and they should be able to make as much noise as they want inside in their ballroom, but the neighborhood shouldn’t have to put up with the disturbances of the peace.
Franny Ingelbretson – in 2010 she moved to Wisconsin Ave, during the review process Edgewater was repeatedly asked about the outdoor events on the public plaza and they listed many events, because they needed to be competitive like Monona Terrace which only had 100 hours of noise or less and much of it was Iron Man. She was hopeful that the Edgewater would be an asset as it was under construction. IN 2016 she realized the neighborhood was misled and that loud music events were the norm. She tried calling the front desk, but she was told there was a permit and an agreement with the city. She called the police, but they often arrived late and they couldn’t do anything. Then she went to the property and asked the front desk o turn down the volume, she was told is was a pre-set by the AV department. She talked to two more staff people and it was tweaked a bit. She stopped calling the police, but saw the police there. It has been stressful living there, she has to keep her windows closed and can still hear the noise. She can hear it in her study with the air conditioner on. She lives 75 feet from the Edgewater and appreciates wind and rain on summer eves. Something went terribly wrong with the PAMA agreement and the city needs to rectify this, this isn’t about music apprciation, its about the unacceptable level and frequency of the sounds. Please accept Alder Zellers recommendations.
James Tye is in support of the Edgewater. The Clean Lakes Alliance says the lakes should be the center of the community and the Edgewater has built a new gateway to the lakes. It has many assets for the community (plaza, fishing pier, etc0. They provide programming for free and it brings 100 people there every month. They also host Frozen Assets that draws 6000 people to a free event. He says they can provide these events for free because of the other events. This was built to enjoy the lakes 365 days a year. The Clean Lakes Alliance success is because of the Edgewater’s success. They want to program the plaza 365 days a year. He lives downtown for the noise. This body made an agreement and this was identified 100 years ago that this would be for the public. Stick to your agreement. He says he’s been to over 50 events there and they should honor their commitment. Nothing comes for free, so people need to rent the space to help nonprofits and community organizations.
Alyssa Wilkins – an employee from the hotel, also a resident on Gorham, she has been hesitant to voice her opinion – she sees both sides, she gets it, the Edgewater wants to crate events and residents wants quality living. The Edgewater embodies what is up and coming for Madison, making Madison a place to be. Madison is promoting entertainment and business innovation and Madison is becoming what it was always intended to be and the Edgewater is giving you exactly what you asked for. Progress takes a little bit of sound, new life, a little bit of live music, but also communication and she is proud to work for the Edgewater. She says what they are proposing is reasonable and she supports what the Edgewater is trying to do for the community. They want to promote the city and foster the neighborhood.
Dan O’Callaghan – Attorney for Edgewater Hotel . . . sorry, taking a break . . . he says they have a 4 tiered proposal with a reduction from the ALRC events, and promised to limit the sound to 9pm and only do 25 events in June, July and August and addressed other concerns. Zellers is still not fully satisfied and has asked to reduce the number of events. And they aren’t willing to reduce it more than their second proposal. Mr. Devitt was right, this is about balance and they have put forward a plan . . . he keeps talking past the buzzer.
Melanie – Director of Special Events at the Edgewater. She is proud of what they do, live music is only a portion of the events that need to be licensed. They do children’s choirs and symphonic groups. She wrote a letter outlining concerns of neighbors and what steps they have taken to mitigate the noise.
Amy Supple – She says that the Edgewater has been open for a little over 3 years and they have done what they said, a lot of good has been done. They understand the concerns and tried to address them. They cut back on time of events, number of events, bought new speakers and paid for sound tech and now bought a band shell. They have gone through a series of proposals to respond to neighbors concerns. She has a chart showing the various proposals to show the level of change and compromise. They have cut and stretched and tried to respond to mitigate concerns. They put the restrictions on themselves. There has been alot of talk about sound and, 65 is a buisness office, 75 is a conversation, 94 is the same as with headphones. THe events are 3-5 hours, not sustained. They met with Zellers on Friday and thought they were withing striking distance of a deal, she was ready to say ok. She will meet the request Zellers made on Friday – this will mean they will have to cut a festival. She would do that, but what Alder Zellers proposed on Monday doesn’t work for them. If we have a wedding, that is a public event. If we have people singing at a tree lighting that is an event. They can’t cut back that much. She agrees with what they had on Friday.
James McFadden in support. Resident of Kenney Manor for last 30 years. They chose to live in Mansion Hill, but not a concert venue. Long term they need a comprehensive community wide response to noise but agrees to ALRC recommendation with amendments by Ledell. The sound level in the room is 55 – 60 decibels. Most cities allow a balancing of entertainment and the neighborhood and 55 in evening and 60 during the day. If the level in this room went to 65 it would increase 1.5 and at 75 it would be intrusive, at 80 db it would be 2.5 more. He says that their home is not livable when the noise is so loud. He says they should look at Chicago’s ordinance. In a crowded neighborhood you have to be more sensitive. Residential 55 during day, 65 in evening and in particularly noisy area, it might be 10 db above the ambient level. We need to give the police firm guidelines to impose and enforce.
Fred Mohs has lived there since 1962 and is committed to his neighbors and residents. He doesn’t hear it in his home where he is located but he does when he goes outside and no other neighborhood would put up with that level of noise. He says that part of the solution they talked about is about how loud is music and he suggests that they need to measure it accurately. He says they should put up some sound senors to test accurately instead of guessing. He says this is disappointing to go from an Edgewater we love to one we don’t. What would you say to any other residential neighborhood? How would you justify this? He hopes they will do their best for them (Kennedy Manor) and people who have lived there 40-50 years. He says they deserve the peace and quiet.
John Jacobs doesn’t live near the Edgewater, lives on near west side. Did attend ALRC to address sound levels for pre-game party. That was at 85 dba on the plaza and 70 dba on the street. The 70 db level was sufficient to hear the band great and he wouldn’t even want it that loud in his neighborhood. He read one alders saying essentially to give them whatever they want. He says the 70 dba at Langdon isn’t about hurting your ear drums, its about hurting your brain. You wouldn’t want to put up with it. The band shell might help and that isn’t such a problem if they want more flexibility for when that gets taken down. Don’t let them leave the big tent up. It blocks the view too much.
5 registrants in support, 3 in opposition
Questions for Registrants
Shiva Bidar asks the Edgewater to address the changes. Amy Supple says that 35 events total, the ALRC discussed and the restrictions it would bring significant harm to their business and they couldn’t successfully program the area. They have cut back, they are uncomfortable with their last proposal and can’t do more.
Bidar says 35 total public and private is . . . (Dan O’Callaghan picks up explaining) proposed by Ledell and 51 total is the Edgewater proposal, ALRC says 35 public and unlimited private events.
David Ahrens is looking for their proposal. O’Callaghan says its number 36.
Bidar asks when they have use the shell (which they ordered in June), apparently 2 or 3 times.
Ahrens says he can’t find it, Jennifer Zilavny form the City Attorney’s office gives him a copy.
Sherry Carter asks if the plaza includes the pier. Amy Supple says no, the noise complaints are from the plaza. They still want to have noise in all other areas.
Questions for Staff
Bidar says that she shared info on decibels during the meeting. She asks staff about 70 vs 85. A staff members I don’t recognize explains form a public health perspective no hearing impairment will happen without 8 hours or 24 hours of prolonged noise – but it would lead to a quality of life issue.
Ledell Zellers asks about other impacts and not hearing loss. He says there was a 2013 report on the impacts of noise, and other cities have done some great work (on page 3). Other health indicators are about 8 hour or 24 hours of exposure, but you could see some of he impacts are a possibility like being awoken.
Zellers asks about ??? as an option. May would not recommend that you adopt their entire plan, we haven’t looked at it, it was drafted by them with input form others, if some portions of what they have in the plan appeal to the council, they should put them in the conditions.
Zellers asks if events could be on the roof top? Does this apply to other areas and could there be higher decibel events in other areas. May says he’d have to look but he thought it applied to the plaza only. He says that it is hard to determine what is a public event, they might want to just refer to events. He says that under 65 decibels it could be unlimited and he’s not sure what that means.
Zellers asks about weddings or a quartet would count against their events under the entertainment license, could you comment on that. Zilavny says that acoustic music exception is for a single player so a quartet would be included in the event. Zellers asks if Zilavny has seen her amendment that would exclude acoustic? Zilavny reads and then has to think about it. May jumps in and reads her language and says it might need a license but would be excluded from counting items. Zilavny agrees.
Zellers asks about other amplified sound – movies – wedding vows – pre-recorded music for ice skating – are those considered entertainment license events. No they are not says Zilavny. Zellers says then they would be unlimited? Yes.
Paul Skidmore asks Captain Feedman and Neighborhood Officer Kelley. What are you hearing? Freedman has been out for some of the incidents, but Kelley has been out more. Shawn Kelley says he’s been there since construction but 50 since it started, but the data is somewhat limited. But that doesn’t include multiple calls for the same event. He says there were some inconsistencies about how noise was addressed. In 2016 and 2017 they worked out an agreement and he had agreed to take a majority of the complaints and our city ordinance is about “reasonableness” and not decibels. Typically when he shows up he gets out of the car and judges for himself if he thinks it is reasonable (day of week, time of day, etc) There were a handful he would deem reasonable. It’s all subjective to the officer showing up. If its unreasonable he will talk to staff and if they adjust they leave, if not, they issue a citation. There were a few that were earsplitting and unreasonably loud. He doesn’t live in the neighborhood, its not his quality of life issue, when it is unreasonable the staff address it. It’s been a real mix of if its reasonable or not.
Bidar asks what time of the day the complaints are. Kelly says that there are different types of noise complaints, it could be music left on over night, trucks, or loud bands. In 2015 it was past 9pm, but since then its around 8pm. By the time they show up sometimes its after 9 so they don’t get there on time. Many happen 8, 8:30 or closer to 9.
Carter asks if there were times they got complaints when there was no event. Kelly says early in the morning loud trucks, a small handful of speakers being left on in sky deck and skating area at 1 or 2 am. The vast majority were for bands outside.
Mark Clear asks how many times they didn’t address the concerns? He says they did every time when he showed up, they did turn it down but I don’t know if it was satisfactory to the neighbors. So there were no citations? No.
Maurice Cheeks asks about the discrepancy about us determining the decibel level but the neighborhood officer can’t enforce the number, seems like there is a lot of discretion – can we enforce decibel levels and if not, why are we talking about it. May says that they can enforce it when they have it, the ordinance doesn’t address decibel levels, if they adopt a limit in the entertainment license, they could enforce it and it would be a violation of the entertainment license.
Cheeks says that we would need to train the officer and give them the equipment. May says or send the public health department. Freedman says that no MPD person has received the training and they don’t have the equipment. It would be something they couldn’t do.
Zeller asks about the routine approach about noise complaints in terms of issuing citations, would you do that as a first order of business? Freedman says that they educate and try to get voluntary compliance over writing citations. They look at many factors, there is no set formula, they allow for officer discretion. It would be unusual for businesses to get a citation immediately before that route would be taken.
CLear asks about the park rangers having the equipment and enforcement, does public health do that, could they call park rangers? Public Health says the the equipment was validated annually and parks and public health can do it but it has to be calibrated. Clear asks if MPD could call the park rangers? Freedman says it might be a possibility depending upon the priorities of the park ranges but he doesn’t know if they could issue a citation based on another department – Zilavny says that they might be at the right decibel level and still be unreasonable. May adds that if this is in the entertainment license, it would have to be addressed in court, not issue a citation.
Clear says that for a violation of the condition, MPD can’t issue a citation? May says yes, it would be a long form complaint.
Zellers asks if it could go back to ALRC . . . I missed some . . . I think it boiled down to that this would have to be a complaint driven issue and they could risk their license.
Bidar asks about the process and reiterated that they could be brought for a revocation just like any other license. Zilavny agrees.
Bidar asks if Building Inspector and Zoning can measure sound. Staff isn’t sure. Zilavny says that Building Inspection has done it in the past. Bidar says they have done it in her bachelorhood as well.
MOTION FOR COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
Mark Clear asks to recess the council meeting and move into committee of the whole so they can talk to each other informally and negotiate. May says they can just convene and they don’t need to recess.
Bidar says that she wants to be on record that at 8:51 this is not a very good idea.
Cheeks says he is trying to figure out how to get out of this, can we agree we will do this for a finite amount of time – how do we get out of a committee of the whole.
Marsha Rummel says they could call the question or move to reconvene as the council at any time.
Mayor Paul Soglin says if they go into committee of the whole, they need to do the roll call, anyone can make a motion and then they would reconvene the city council meeting and have another roll call.
Bidar says that they shouldn’t be going into committee of the whole, even tho the Edgewater is near and dear to our hearts, but ALRC went until 1:30 am.
Motion fails on a voice vote.
Questions for Staff
Denise Demarb wants them to summarize the three options before them. May says that the approve with the ALRC conditions. Replace condition number 4 as recommended by Zellers. Or, amend the conditions as suggested by the Edgewater.
Zellers moves the acceptance of conditions of ALRC as the main motion. It is moved and seconded.
Zellers then moves amendment to replace condition 4 with limiting events to 35 (public and private) per license year, 20 outdoor live music events can be memorial day to labor day, acoustic (non-amplified) are not covered. It is seconded. Zellers says she is supporting an entertainment license and wants them to be successful despite some of her residents not wanting her to support a license. This does not impact indoor events, outdoor acoustic performances that are otherwise covered by the Edgewater, she thanks Bidar for her help with that suggestion. She says that it would not limit in any way the other kinds of outdoor events the Edgewater can have, including some that have been disruptive – no outdoor movie events or amplified per-recorded music of ice skating and other events. It doesn’t limit weddings or amplified sound of the person conducting the wedding. She says that while she recognizes that these events held by the Edgewater are appreciated by many people, they are most appreciated by people who are not in the noise impact zone. She hands out a drawing of the noise impact zone. People outside that zone (she lives a block and a half from the Edgewater) so she can choose to go down there and listen, but she doesn’t have to listen two or three days a week and hat is what her constituents have had to do without relief. The guests and condo owners can close their windows and turn on air conditions and get relief. Many of her constituents can’t. They may not have ac or they might want to have guests. The events are wonderful and they do community events (they are required to do 8 and they probably do more than that) and those are good things. Constituents who have lived here 5, 10, 15 or more years and they are suffering, their health and quality of life is suffering, but maybe not their hearing loss. There is no other place in the city with this type of situation. Picture if an entertainment venue landed in your neighborhood and had entertainment 2 or 3 or more times a week. 35 is reasonable and we can continue to work with them, their license will be coming up and once they have good data on the decibel levels. A large share of the issues are in upper floors, the sound is issues up the hill and up wind as shown in the noise impact zone. She would encourage them to be sensitive to the needs of the residents, we heard about the needs of the business but the only option the residents have is to move. Look out for the success of the neighborhood and we can work with the Edgewater to continue to be successful.
Bidar says that option 1 is ALRC – limits 70 decibels, limits public events to 35 and is silent on other private events. Option 2 is the modified ALRC before them know for Zellers – total number is 35 events (public and private), top level is 70 decibels and allows acoustic and non-amplified at any time. This would allow a harp and two instruments. Option 3 is what the Edgewater – total events over 65 decibels is 51 events a year, under 65 they can have unlimited events. She hopes that clarifies. Two are based on public and private and the third option is decibel levels.
David Ahrens supports ALRC recommendation. He says that the issue that a band shell was recently installed and it directs sound to the lake – even tho this has not been tested – but they got the band shell to direct the music away from the neighborhood. He says the restrictions that are onerous are premature until they learn about the efficacy of the band shell. He doesn’t believe in the measurement of decibels and we don’t have staff to do the tests, we have to rely on the license holder to show their judgement, good will and business sense to do the right thing. He is going to rely on the hours of committee work and the decision they made, it has balance. If it turns out to be problematic then they could separate the license during the 2018 renewal.
Steve King would like Zellers to state her opinion on the Edgewater proposal if her amendment fails, would that be better for the neighborhood than the ALRC version.
Zellers says that the distinction between public and private makes no sense at all because it would be ahrd to count, so there is something to be said for the tiered approach by the Edgewater and if that was 40 events between 65 and 70 db and 20 in June July and August and 3 at 70 – 75. That would be preferable to the ALRC’s condition number 4 because she can’t get her head around the public and private.
Mark Clear moves and amendment to the amendment and changes 35 to 45 and no more than 10 events can’t exceed 70, no events can exceed 8, no more than 10 events can go past 10pm and no event can go past 11. (hope I got that right) It’s seconded. He says that some of ALRC is too onerous and some is too permissive. Current conditions are too permissive. Zellers is too sonorous. He says this is a compromise between Zellers and Edgewater and throws away what ALRC did. He hopes this has less impact on the neighbors than the ALRC recommendations. The time restrictions are not something the ALRC did and he thinks it addresses the neighbors concerns (time and noise level)
Rummel says that all these compromises are great, but if no one can enforce the decibel level what is the point. Edgewater staff are saying they have a meter and they will monitor it. Rummel says what if its in the decibel level and the officer finds it is not reasonable. She says there aren’t many outdoor entertainment licenses in the city. 2 are in her neighborhood – one can do 6 but have to notify the neighborhood and one can do 2. This is an outlier and at a different scale.
Mike Verveer says that as a member of the ALRC and having sat through the marathon meeting, he was surprised there wasn’t more testimony this evening. He says there is an exhaustive record you don’t see in legistar. It was clearly made that many of the neighbors are suffering because of the entertainment and it is contrary to the public health safety and welfare of the community. He thinks that record was well established. He was the lone dissenting vote at the ALRC, it was a vote of 3 in favor, one opposed and one non-voting, they barely had quorum. He voted against the motion because of condition number 4. The reason there is a public/private distinction is because of the Edgewater proposed plan. He says people think weddings for private events, but a private corporate event was one of the biggest offender. He thinks that they had a defect in their recommendation by only limiting the public events which are the events we are all supportive of. No matter what we do tonight, do not make a distinction between public and private, but yes on acoustic vs amplified. Condition number 3 we are suggesting a license separation in 2018 – so we will have this conversation again in May and he wants them to think about the action we are taking only goes until June 30th. And then we will do this all over again. He says we shouldn’t over think or overly complicate this. This will only affect the next few months and much of it will be winter. He says he represented the Edgewater in the past before redistricting and there were no concerns in the past. Some people think this is sour grapes and upset they lost the battle over the expansion several years ago, and some of the faces are familiar, but every single month they have the Mansion Hill Neighborhood meeting, they hear about the noise. He wants to put to rest that people like Fred Mohs and his tenants are here because they are upset they lost. That just isn’t the case, these are real genuine concerns. It is a health issue, it is a real issue, it isn’t fabricated and we should address that concern.
Bidar says that she hopes they defeat both the amendments, 3 of the citizen members listened and voted in favor. They did understand the public and private distinction. She says they can’t come up with good solutions on the council floor and this will be separated in 2018 and Zellers can come up with something better by then. That is an opportunity. There won’t be alot of outdoor events in our winter months. No bands will be there. Please respect the process and what ALRC came up with and she hopes in 2018 there is a better tiered noise level proposal. We aren’t there yet, the ALRC is good enough for now. It Zeller and Edgewater can’t come up with a compromise then we can’t come up with one for them, it wouldn’t be a compromise if the parties don’t agree.
Call the question – didn’t hear who – no one objects.
Clear says he doesn’t support his own amendment, Mayor asks if he’ll withdraw – Hall (the second) agrees. No other objections.
Zellers amendment is still there – motion fails 7 nos. (Kemble, Martin, Skidmore, Verveer, Zellers, Baldeh and ?? (Wood? Palm? Rummel?) I’m assuming it was Rummel? It was hard to hear!
Motion passes on a voice vote with the ALRC original recommendations not amended.
PLACEMAKING
82. Legislative File No. 48312 – SUBSTITUTE – Strengthening and Expanding Community Empowerment through Placemaking in Key Neighborhoods and Authorizing a Contract with Project for Public Spaces for Placemaking Training and Assistance in the Implementation of Short-Term Improvements in Neighborhood Community Places. (Items Referred to This Meeting – Ald. Sara Eskrich, District 13)
Sorry, Tariq Saffiq explained the three trainings they would do but I missed it . . . passes on a voice vote.
RECONSIDERATION OF TIF LOAN
125. Legislative File No. 48471 – Approving a Small Cap TIF #32 Mansion Hill-James Madison Park Neighborhood loan of up to $100,000 to Scott Pratt & Michele Wee, Borrower(s), for the renovation of the property located at 308 N. Carroll Street, Madison, WI and its conversion from rental to owner-occupied housing; and authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to execute a loan agreement with the Borrower(s) to effectuate this transaction. (Reconsideration Requested by Ald. Ledell Zellers, District 2 & Ald. Mike Verveer, District 4)
They barely had quorum, somehow people got locked out of the council meeting, including Alder Clear.
Rummel moves to reconsider, she was on the prevailing side.
No one speaks.
Verveer asks to be referred to the next council meeting.
The mayor hurries up to vote – Verveer is trying to say that he would have explained but they move on . . . .
WRAP UP
They introduce these two items and adjourn quickly. 9:40pm
Legislative File No. 49085 – Approving Plans and Specifications for Crazylegs Plaza and Wingra Park Entrance (Ald. Sara Eskrich, District 13)
Recommended Action: Refer to Board of Public Works, Ped/Bike/Motor Vehicle Commission, Board of Park Commissioners
Legislative File No. 49095 – Authorizing a modification of the service contract for tourism marketing services, between the City and the Greater Madison Convention and Visitors Bureau. (Ald. Mark Clear, District 19)
Recommended Action: Finance Committee
